Ethno::log |
Dept. of thoughts, kerleone, December 2, 2003 at 7:41:38 PM CET Invention of Tradition and "the other" I was recently arguing about the United States and their lack of a long term history, which distinguishes them from other states and ethnic groups. But I have to start from the beginning of my thought. There's a term in anthropology, "invention of tradition" which was introduced twenty or thirty years ago and describes the fact, that in many states tradition and history was "invented". For example, the idea of the Indian caste was a concept build in colonial India by the British, but the society stated it to be older (correct me if I am wrong with this example)(1)(The first book dealing with this idea was Hobsbawm, E. and Ranger, T (Eds.): The Invention of Tradition. Cambridge : Cambridge University Press, 1983) . First of all, this invention of tradition, or at least its constant redefinition, is not only bad. It could enable communities to change themselves, without "officially" changing its values. Change without a revolution. In many ethnic groups we have those kind of movements, with refer to a time so far away, not exactly being present in the common memory of a society anymore. Its so far away that the community could interpret and define those traditions in a new way, while still keeping the basic ideas of its self identity. My argument now was this. The United States lack this kind of "old enough history". Or in other words, the one they have, is not suitable for most Americans. And because of that their own steady definition of "itself" as a nation is not able to rely on this "old enough history". They have to define themselves by defining "the other". But this definition of the self by the outer world instead of the inner world probably is one source for the constant confrontation with other states. Well, this was my argument. Now, as I wrote it down, it seems rather simplifying. But maybe it has still a true point. Another question I have is if I borrowed this argument from another debate. Is this a common claim, that the Americans have to define themselves by the "other" because of their lack of free interpretable, "old enough history"? ... Comment
katatonik, December 2, 2003 at 8:01:08 PM CET
This relates to your concerns only remotely, but as I was just reading Hobsbawm's preface to the volume which introduced invented traditions, I was wondering: what distinguishes invented from non-invented traditions? (And, to wit, some traditions are NOT invented, though I must say that from the inflationary use of the notion "invented tradition" in the kind of media I read you'd get the impression that tradition itself is inherently invented.) Does common memory play a part in this? More to your question, your idea seems to presuppose that one defines group identities either through tradition (invented or not) or through contrast with others. But what about utopia, future, promise? Should the quite pervasive self-understanding of Northern America as the land of the free etc. not be considered here? Sure, this utopian myth also depends on contrasting yourself with others, but perhaps the utopian aspect is more important than the contrastive one - just thinking. (Hey, what about some of these superb footnote fields in comments? They are wonderful, by the way. The footnote gadgets, I mean.) ... Link
kerleone, December 4, 2003 at 6:47:07 PM CET
Yes, this was the main critic againt that concept. Its always difficult if you declare somthing as truly, and other thing as false. The interesting part in this concept is, that it show, that history and thus also tradition is always an interpretation, and the perception of the past never determinated. Well, I thought also about the myths the US-americans produced in their short common history. I think my idea was wrong. Their are still enough histories and traditions they can interprete. Think only of the german humanistic movement, which is so strongly relying on the ancient greek history, without beeing ethnical or national a descendant. Why the amercians should not rely on greek history and traditions? They already do with italian culture. The think they invented pizza ;-) For the footnotes: You already can use them also in the comments, theoretically, but I don't wan't to complicate the input window with this footnote form. And in the comments its no problem if the text gets longer, as it is on the main page. ... Link ... Comment
zephyrin, December 3, 2003 at 10:08:36 AM CET
Facade and Hollowness in Las Vega$
I'm not at all sure if I really got your point, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. My recent visit to the USA -- I was in Las Vega$ for one week (and yes, I was in THE show of Siegfried&Roy when the tiger attacked Roy) -- resulted in some thoughts which seem to go with yours. What astonished me was the ever-present celebration of the US, the flag, and the constitution. Even the generators inside the Hoover-dam are decorated with flags like they were birthday-cakes, or July 4th cakes. On the big billboard-screens, which are scattered all over the strip, every ten minutes or so a US-flag is to be seen flapping in the wind, and a text-overlay says: God bless America. Even showstars (in this case Penn&Teller) reflect on the flag and the constitution on stage during their show. All this becomes quite annoying to the european visitor after a short time (at least to me). [US-friends told me that all this sprang up after September 11.] P.S.: There are pleasant points, too. E.g. everyone is friendly -- now you say that's only on the surface. But hell, I can't touch more than the surface of someone who rides with me on the city-bus, and whom I'll never see again in my life. And the bus-rides in Las Vegas are just great; everyone is cheering and joking and interacting with the bus-driver -- it's a big show, too, but a good one. /end of rant. ... Link
kerleone, December 4, 2003 at 6:48:39 PM CET
YOU WAS IN THE SHOW WHEN THE TIGER ATE ROY? ... Link
zephyrin, December 12, 2006 at 11:57:23 AM CET
It was drop-dead gorgeous [multi-level pun intended]. ... Link
orangemcm., December 12, 2006 at 8:11:13 PM CET
oh wow. it is as I said, man--this blog is a galaxy. thx once more. ... Link ... Comment |
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